Season 1 - Episode 1

Anthony Scott: Good day, everyone. My name is Anthony Scott. I serve as Associate Dean of Students at Virginia Tech but I am moving into a position that is new to the institution and it is the Chief for Inclusion and Belonging under the direction of Frank Shushok, who is the Vice President of Student Affairs. Now, the purpose of this program is to make the discussions of diversity and inclusion and equity and belonging- make all of these issues fun for our students so they can engage in these discussions because as we know these are very tough discussions to have. But what we don't want to do is to bury them under all of the quagmire and rust and decay of just frustration and anger that we currently have in the United States and we also experience here at Virginia Tech. So today I have three outstanding and great students with me and I'm going to allow them to introduce themselves and we're going to just have a discussion about what we want to do at Virginia Tech, what we want to see and how we are going to make it happen. So that's it. I'm going to start off with my Graduate Assistant here - Thomas - if you wouldn't [mind] introducing yourself and then we'll just do a round robin.

Thomas: Awesome! Thanks, Anthony. Hi, everyone. I'm Thomas Miller. I'm a first year graduate student in the sociology department. I was also an undergraduate here at Virginia Tech and I worked in the Vice President's office and I also worked with the Student Life Council and from there I started my new position working as a graduate assistant with Anthony Scott and I'm really helping him kind of start the office, working with Inclusion and Belonging and getting students engaged and, yeah, I'm just excited to be here. Thank you.

Imani: Hello, everyone. My name is Imani Gainey. I am a junior majoring in industrial systems engineering. Currently, I am an Undergraduate Fellow in the Office of VP- the VP Student Affairs. Also, I serve as a mentor in SEED, as well as the Ujima Living Learning Community. As of right now, I just want to bring to the table a fresh perspective as someone who works in a male-dominated field and kind of just seeing what it's like for minority students on campus and kind of just be a voice.

Emma: Hi everyone. My name is Emma Rosman. I'm a first year student and I'm pursuing a dual degree in public health and business management. I'm here because I have recently entered my role as the Vice President of Equity and Inclusion under the Undergraduate Student Senate, which is a brand new student governance structure here at Virginia Tech and I also serve on the Student Life Council under Dr. Shushok. I'm really excited to be here today and, um, I'm really excited as, uh, through the role- I'm really excited about the role that I'm serving in, um, and to speak more with these awesome people.

Anthony: Thank you all and thank you all for agreeing to join us today. Um, before we get started, what I would like to do is just jump into, uh. just a simple question about your viewpoint of where we are in America right now and and how it affects you as an individual. When it comes to race relations, uh, we know right now race is included and and inserted in everything from politics, all the way through the arts. You see it everywhere and some people like it and some people don't, but what is your take on it right now and where we are and how it's affecting you.

Emma: I can go first, um, so something that I've always thought about is how, um, universities, specifically in the united states, are microcosms for what's going on in the nationally and, um, I think that through the new, your new position and through my new position on the USS, Virginia Tech is demonstrating that diversity, equity, inclusion, belonging work is a priority for us in the university, um, and I think just through these new positions that are being created and being prioritized, um, it's showing students that of it's showing all students at Virginia Tech that their voices are going to be a priority and that their representation is important for the university.

Imani: I'd like to speak on this as well. I feel like the movements that we are currently seeing in the news - both in-person and even on social media with hashtag usage - um, it's a revolution. It's a new awakening. Um, this generation is so focused on bridging the gap and they want their voice to be heard and they're in the streets trying, you know. We hear them but what the problem is, I think, is that who sits in power, who sits in positions to make the change is not- do, do not have the same mindset. Do not have the same goal or focus. Um, that can be said for both public institutions- state, federal… It's just that who we have in power right now is not representing the true voice of this generation and the change that they are trying to promote.

Thomas: I definitely, um, I see echoes of kind of a polarization that we're feeling and it kind of freezes up campus in particular and getting people to talk about it as you said, Anthony, is really difficult because it can turn political really quickly because there's a lot of charged emotions and experiences and trauma kind of rooted in, in where people are coming from in these conversations. But as, um, Emma said it's campus is a microcosm for society but it's also a place for us to test how we can improve ourselves and how we can lead a new future and Virginia Tech is all about that and I think the work that we're doing here to address kind of difficulties and the oppressive structure of race in the United States is something where students practice and um get ahead at these conversations so when they leave the university and start their lives, they can get into a space where they can challenge these structures and talk with people across differences every day.

Anthony: Wonderful, I- I know right now some people believe that to have young people engage in this conversation can be a dangerous thing. Um, some people believe that you will get young people in the room. When I say young people I mean students at the university they believe you'll get the young people in the room and they'll you talk about race and then they'll all just look at each other but what we've done is we've, we've understood that context is missing. That a lot of young people begin their understanding of, particularly race relations, in school when they learn about Martin Luther King and they learn about a couple other people but that's about where it stops. They don't understand going back to the year 1619 and even prior to that, um, when people were coming here to the United States, um, and well, coming here to the Americas at that time and and how we've evolved and where we are now but what we're trying to do is create a program that's called Foundations and the focus of Foundations is it's a- it's a student-facing training train train the trainer program where students can come together and you guys can help lead us because I am a staunch believer in the fact that it takes young people to lead in certain areas. So when I say that and I put this weight on you of, seemingly, to carry us through and to help us through and help us understand. When I say us, I mean older people, for you to teach us how to talk about these issues and how to live through these issues and some- at some point overcome the barriers that we have through hate, anger, misunderstanding, and all of those things. How does that make you feel?

Thomas: I think, um, students are in a weird predicament where we're only here for so long that gives us a sort of transience, so we don't feel like we have a lot of power in making what, um, the, the current conditions change. Part of that is because um there's a sort of a lack of motivation because students know that they're going to leave but I do think that students especially Virginia Tech students really believe in making this place better for future students and giving students the voice and the power to make that change is really important so that they understand that they have impact over time and for future classes. I mean I know that the change that I've made at Virginia Tech has impacted people that I won't ever know. I won't know the specifics about how they change but um I hope that what we're doing can really lead to all students having that kind of mindset.

Emma: Yeah that's cool. Um, I think like the way that you described the connection between young people and maybe older people um and that conversation you described it as a weight and I would challenge that to have it be described more as an opportunity and I also would challenge your, your thought that maybe it discourages us that the fact that we're here for only a certain amount of time. I'm a first-year student and I guess the idea of me only being here for four years makes me want to put as much energy into this project and into this work as possible because I know that I only have a certain amount of time and I'd like to make the best use of that time. So, yeah, I find it energizing and I find that the opportunity is being presented here in a very unique way. I have so many connections here. More connections I've ever had in my whole life um and I'd like to be able to use those resources to the best of my ability.

Anthony: Great, I appreciate that.

Imani: Yeah, I'm reflecting on the age gap, of course, and given a limited amount of time that we are here, the emphasis of first year, second year, third year, fourth year, also kind of dictates what others believe. You’re what your knowledge level is, what your experience level is. A first year student could have just as much as someone who's in their fourth year but certain opportunities and things of, like, are just limited, as well, like our age limits us for certain possibilities and opportunities because of what others think what we may know instead of letting those explore their talents and explore their talents and kind of prove what they really can bring to the table. Um, so also when we look at it, when we think of diversity, we also have to make sure that we're not just pulling a first year experience. We're not just pulling a fourth year experience, someone who's about to leave. It's so much that happens within the four years and it's different for everyone. Um, and that's what I appreciate right now like right now we're representing a first year student, a graduate student, someone who's kind of in the mix of just leaving from underclassmen in the transition the upperclassmen and that perspective is fresh and it's also needed and sometimes that can be overlooked. Um, age gaps within the university and not just focusing on beginning to end.

Thomas: Yeah, I mean, I- where you're talking about there's, there's an age gap and a level of kind of, um, people believe that the more experience that you have the more right you have to the table and that goes between, you know, administration and people who are working at the university and faculty and students but also among students there's a certain opportunity structure that emerges when you've been here for a long time that gets you to the top of the ladder, to the table faster and engaging with students of all levels is probably one of the most important things we can do to making it- to make sure every student is well heard.

Anthony: The three of you have, um, have demonstrated exactly what we want to see students do here and that is get engaged but you guys have cho- you, excuse me, you all have chosen to get involved in this work. What brought you to this, to the idea of working with inclusion and belonging?

Imani: Okay, I'll start off. Um, as a stem major, I always want to know the why. What's your major, Imani? Industrial and systems engineering. I need qualitative and quantitative data. My freshman year, I lived in the Ujima Living Learning Program located in Peddrew-Yates Hall and I just wanted the numbers and everything. I wanted to know how many of us was in the program. How many are on campus. Compare it. Think about who's involved, who's not. Set a percentage to it and then I try to think that the error was found in this quantitative data. That it's not like we try to always put something factual when sometimes to make it evident and make it approachable and to say this is set. So I believe I can argue about it but sometimes the opinions, the emotions and what makes up the qualitative data as well like it matters just as much. Um you have to find a balance between a story and then what the numbers really show because somewhere in there is a blur line but if you understand both sides that I feel like you can really crack down to what the real issue is. That's what I like to do. You know it's- I'm a stem major working in higher education. They don't really push that. They tell you the manufacturing you know everything else. So this perspective, that's working as an Undergraduate Fellow right now in student affairs, has opened my eyes to a lot. That you can bring ideation and innovation to personal problems.

Anthony: Exactly, that's good. Anyone else? Why are you doing what you do?

Emma: Ever yeah, um, so in high school - Thomas and I went to the same high school - I'm from Arlington, Virginia and throughout elementary, middle, and high school I found myself in predominantly white spaces and predominantly Christian spaces. Um and so I'm both Chinese and I'm Jewish and so I never felt that I was represented in leadership or really anywhere. Um the best way I can describe this is when I was little I never knew what to dress up as for halloween so dressed up as inanimate like objects because I was like who do I dress up as like my only option is Mulan, right? Um and so that's kind of the best way I can describe it but I just felt I wasn't represented um in high school. I became involved in a Jewish youth group and even within that group I didn't feel represented as a Jew of color. So I began a racial- our first Racial Justice Education Task Force and that kind of kick-started my journey with DEI work. Once I came to Virginia Tech's campus I heard about an opportunity within the Undergraduate Student Senate um for the VP of Equity and Inclusion. I felt that was right up my alley so I ran my campaign. I felt that I learned a lot from it. I felt that I made a lot of connections. I networked a lot and I heard from students who were soon to be my constituents and that work was really energizing for me. So I'm really excited to be here um and representation means a lot to me. Advocacy means a lot to me and even though I wasn't necessarily able to reap the benefits of DEI work when I was younger, I hope to be able to provide that for students here.

Anthony: Wonderful.

Thomas: Yeah I mean Emma talked about this I- I came from northern Virginia - pretty privileged background. Um and I was a big STEM kid in high school and when I got to Virginia Tech's campus my first year, I was pushed by the general education requirements to take classes outside of engineering and that's something that I never had the opportunity to do um because I was pushed down the STEM track really hard and in those um classes that I was taking outside of engineering, I was taking sociology and international studies and politics. I was learning about the experiences of others. That's something that I had never done before because when you're taking a physics class you're not necessarily stepping out of your own perspective socially or politically or anything like that. So getting into those classes, I was kind of really interested in that engagement of kind of stepping into uncomfortable space um and my academic interests led me down that path. So I left engineering and I started taking more sociology classes and having taken more classes I was pushed into more and more uncomfortable space. So I had to take a Intro to African American Studies course and I took a Women's and Gender Studies course and in both courses I was the only - or one of the few white men - in the entire space and they were small classes and if they have to be if I was a minority as a white man but in those spaces I felt a strong discomfort with what was happening and I had to interrogate that within myself. I had to say: why am I uncomfortable being a minority in this space? Because that's something I never had to experience before um and I started reflecting upon that and I started using it in my coursework um and then I got to the point where I realized I have a say in what campus feels like- both in a sense of how welcoming I am to people that are different than me but also how I can challenge people who are similar to me to push themselves to also welcome other people and that's what really kind of set me off was that first academic interest and once I figured figured that out, I really pushed myself outside of the classroom to continue that work. So I joined Student Life Council and I said, you know, I'm going to bring sociology and what I've been learning and my personal experience into those advocacy roles as students and pushing other students in those spaces but also the leaders that I was interacting with on campus to think of different perspectives and I mean as a sociologist taking other people's perspectives is key to understanding the social experience and I find myself consistently bringing that perspective into my to how I engage on campus.

Anthony: Well as I see here listen to you all I- I hear um one of the words that I embrace when it comes to students here at Virginia Tech and that is “belonging” and understanding that the students who come here, they want to feel like this is their their home and it's difficult when you are underrepresented or you- as you, uh, sort of alluded to, Thomas, you have no recognition of the experience of others who are minoritized or underrepresented. So how important. Well, let me ask you guys this because right now when we think about the table of diversity, the table of inclusion, around that table we have black people um hispanic latino ethnicities we have asian we have lgbtq we have women we have all of these these descriptions but let me ask you: Who is missing?

Thomas: One of the things that I've- I think is, they may be at the table but are their voices heard? Are they really understood?

Anthony: Um who would that be?

Thomas: I think under uh underrepresented students. Um, I think Imani might be able to speak on this but as someone who is a minority student, you get asked to be on, you know, diversity and inclusion tasks for task forces or um uh committees or you get asked your voice a lot but it seems like surface level they're not really looking to understand how your experiences have have shaped who you are and change how negative experiences have impacted you. Especially with the growth of diversity and inclusion and um trying to make the space more belonging um I think a lot of privileged people, a lot of people with power want to change campus but they don't know how and part of the reason is trepidation and listening to people um with open ears and hearing their really honest opinions because the honest opinion is the ones that really don't get set at the table because of just the assumption of norms, how you engage with leaders. I'm not going to talk about how, you know, someone screamed at you from their car window as they drove past you you know with the Vice President for Student Affairs every day because the context doesn't set that up. Um but yeah I mean hearing the voices is to me just as important as bringing someone to the table.

Anthony: What do you think?

Imani: You post the question who is missing and oftentimes it's easy to paint black and white- a black and white picture, but in reality it's a spectrum. It's- it's not, it's no longer just black and white. Um, when we think of the demographics of this campus, um it's easy to say and hypothetically speaking let's just say 95 like three percent black. That's not the case anymore. We have internat- We're big on international students. We're big in the Latinx community, asian, everyone. I feel like depending on who you are talking to the question the answer may differ of who is not present. If you speak to the asian community, you may- they could maybe say the black community is missing at the table. You speak to the black community, they can say x, y, and z is missing. Any community you speak to there's a lot of social issues in this world of course you know with the history of America, we all we pinpoint on a few but I feel like we all need to be there for each other, starting with at the level of minority community- communities understanding each other because when you bring individuals into a space to talk to the hot. When we have the chance where students are pulled and you can speak to the president you have five different issues that is trying to be portrayed and spoken up about and it causes the focus to shift and when in reality, I feel like everyone really has the same mission but at the time their concern and their passion behind their pain overcomes that and becomes confusing. Well now you see it as okay. They need something separate. They need something separate, but in reality you're not finding the main focus. The main one thing that everyone needs um it's a ladder, you know, and it's in a sense of- of who you get to talk to next and how the change gets made. Um and it's like- it just goes back to everyone can say that, “Well I feel like they're missing” and I feel like we need to start by understanding each other at the ground level. I don't want to say that minorities are necessarily at ground level but in regards to when they come to the table if you have that clear message ready to go that everyone can agree on, just think about how it's like the pencil example. One pencil can snap. You bring two, three, four- you can't. It pushes it. You can't ignore it. You can't be confused about what the students are asking for if it's clear as day written right there. So that's just something they really never ever talk about that but that's just something new to kind of shed some light on.

Emma: Yeah um I think you make a great point that oftentimes um it'll be hard to identify maybe who is missing at the table depending on what space it is um and I- I love that pencil analogy and I think that often times when we're in spaces talking about DEI work or inclusion and belonging work it feels as though the mission isn't always possible. If we don't have buy-in from every group um if we don't have the support of all the white students on campus, if we don't have support of all the jewish students on campus, et cetera like maybe this goal or this mission in mind won't be achievable and I think that that's part of the work that we're trying to do is we're trying to pull people into this work make it as accessible as possible. Um one more thing I was thinking about is that sometimes when we're thinking about bringing everyone to the table, we lose sight of the individual um and when I say that I mean oftentimes I'm brought into spaces and it's difficult for me because I feel this like deep intersectionality of my identity between my religion or my race or my gender or any other part of my um personality or identity that maybe is invisible to the plain eye and so kind of what Thomas was saying is that it's so important to be speaking to each other on such a on a level where we're understanding each other's experiences and our history and what we're struggling with on campus and maybe how that manifests in our ability to do our work. Our ability to succeed in this- in this university um and so yeah I think that it just we need buy-in and we need to be able to relate to each other on, like you said, that ground level.

Anthony: I know part of the work um part of the mission that I would love to see happen is that we use the Foundations format to help students understand that we want them to grow their listening skills in order to expand their empathy and build relationships across differences and and when I hear that I envision a time where you know back in the day when wasn't too long ago um let's say when George Floyd was murdered. Um I had a lot of people contacting me saying are you all right- you're all right? But what would happen if there was a day when I was to go and and I understand this some people may say this is a huge dream but it is my dream when I go to Thomas and say, “Hey, are you all right?” and because we will have taken the opportunity to listen to each other to the point where I understand that an action like that affects Thomas as a white male-identifying person just as much as it harms me as a black male-identifying person. So when you think about how we can start there, because listening to you Imani, you were talking about starting from the ground and I think starting from the ground and working our way up- it's about us talking and listening. How do you feel- how do you feel about that? Because there are so many people who feel overlooked and not listened to. Do you think something like that could be a benefit on campus?

Thomas: I think so. I mean to kind of combine the last question in this one. Um we always talk about bringing people to the table. We mean- we talk about that, we mean the most important table- the table where all the decisions are made. But that table doesn't necessarily impact people's everyday experiences in the way that people's personal groups, their social groups, you know the fraternities or sororities they're in, the social clubs they're in, the classes they're in. Those spaces have a lot of impact on people and how they feel on campus, much more you know than the university council- the president's roundtable. And when you can, I think what- I think what we need to do is bring more students into the- into this conversations in all of those other spaces and maybe not um right at the beginning at the main table where all the decisions are made because students experiences are formed by their immediate surroundings and where they spend most of their time. So if we can get students engaged in conversations around inclusion and belonging you know in their fraternity house and their sorority house, at their club meetings, in their classrooms, then you can have more students that are open and then you create a culture of students and when a culture of students come together with a unique feeling of listening and empathy and understanding, then students can have a unified voice and take that to the leadership.

Emma: Yeah I agree with Thomas. I think that some of the best conversations I've had around DEI work have been in more intimate spaces with some of my closest friends and the reason why is because the environment feels safe when I'm speaking about maybe my personal experiences. How I feel about the topic of race, etc if I'm speaking about that with the people that I trust the most people that I feel the most comfortable with then I feel then it's more comfortable for everyone. Um and so, like you said, like, yes, there are these big tables- the university council, the president's roundtable, but those aren't necessarily the most important. Those aren't necessarily the table um and as long as these conversations are happening across campus and not just where the big administrators are or the people in power are. We can start to create a more inclusive and a more comfortable culture where everyone feels safe voicing their own opinion and everyone feels safe learning and just being able to listen to what the people around them have to say.

Imani: Um, speaking on personal stories that will be shared, some of these stories are very fragile. Um it takes a lot to speak on it. Um, for example, social media has made it normal to see someone die and it's getting reposted, re-shared. You don't think in the moment you're watching someone die. Just think of- I know that's more a more extreme example, but the extreme can be something else. For someone else to be called a slur, to, you know, a lot of things are reported anonymously, not face-to-face. And say I said this- this is what happened to me. So we have to create a comfort level um also we have to think about what each other's strengths are and not each other's weaknesses- their balance to each other. You have to find what someone else's strength is and what someone else is weak in and create a dream team. For an example, earlier we were kind of mentioning you know why get involved and then I started thinking about my strengths and we started using the word empathy a lot. Empathy is literally one of my top five strengths as well as Developer Relator Futuristic and Restorative. How- now that I'm in this space and now that I'm reflecting on what we're doing right now, those five strengths- you need that representation, like, perfect five words right there to get it started up and I just came to that realization sitting here. You need someone who can, you know sympathetic but you also have to have someone who's futuristic to see that “hey, there could be a shift in this. we could do this, we can achieve this,” but also you know you need a little bit of great little um muscle in there, as well. You need some tactical forces to get it done. So, um yeah, we have to turn that fragility into power and strength.

Anthony: Just and I'm not sure how much time we have but um as I'm sitting here listening to all of you and and your concerns and what we're talking about is moving ahead and I recognize that we are a university of 37,000 students in southwest Virginia and when things happen in the world it's almost like we're unaffected because we are sitting right here. We're not by a large metropolitan area so it just happens and- and I recognize that when um we went through certain things in the past and I would just wait and see the reaction of the students and there was no reaction. There was no outcry. There was- it was just silence. So what could we do here at Virginia Tech to make sure that students understand the importance of this area of inclusion and belonging because it's not- it's not just about people sitting down and talking about race. It's not about that. It's about us developing people who can go out into- into the world and make a change. So from your perspective, what can we do here? And I'll try to boil that down - what can we do in Student Affairs to make this an easier task for students to embrace and see the hope in it?

Emma: So um I would argue that when big things happen in the world, it is affecting us on a personal level and maybe it doesn't feel like that in southwest Virginia with this many students because we're not talking about it enough. Um I think that when things happen in the world - whether it's about race, whether it's not about race, whether it's something big, um, it does affect me and it affects the people around me. But if we're not talking about it maybe it doesn't feel like it. Maybe it feels like I'm the only one that's being affected by it. So I don't want to talk about it um but as long as we're talking together and we're saying, “no this actually does affect me and it affects me in xyz ways. How is it affecting you as someone who doesn't share the same identities as me?” Um when those conversations start to happen I think that's when the empathy comes into play because then we're starting to understand that the things that are happening in the world do affect us like they do and past that they affect us in different ways.

Anthony: And I will say this, I remember in the past when things have happened and the university would um and the times that I remember have been times where there's been an impact on the black and african american community and the university would hold meetings and bring those students together and- and ask them to speak and I heard the uh reports back from the students saying how they didn't want to do that and what can we do differently because understanding that- from what you said Emma- it is important that we do allow students to talk but how can we do that in a way that students see it as a benefit and not a struggle?

Thomas: It's kind of two things that I'm thinking about connecting what Emma said is um one of the reasons why we feel kind of like we're in a bubble is both the fact that we see a diluted impact of the events that surround us in the country coming into Virginia Tech. So because we're in the mountains in southwest Virginia, things that happen outside of here can seem like they don't have a lot of impact because we're kind of isolated geographically but part of that isolation also means that we don't feel like we have a lot of motivation to change the world just because we're here we're not all around the world at least when we're students. So when you feel like you can't change the world and there's not a lot you can do um you really need to be brought up um by the university with a sense of agency and I think rooting the Student Affairs kind of mentality about how to make bring action to students is to- to fill them with agency like they can change the world because they can. Although a lot of the times, when you're busy with classwork and you're just working on yourself seems like there's not a lot of change but opening up spaces where students can collectively find their agency, I think that's something that's really important and it's hard to create spaces like that because oftentimes we feel like uh we have this one space devoted towards African-American students. We have this one space devoted to Asian American students. Um and we get to- we get to those points and we think, “oh, that's enough. You know, they have a space. This group- this group has a space. This group has a space.” Um and that's not enough. I mean from personal experience um being um in the LGBTQ+ community, um, the university-sponsored spaces are not always the most welcoming. Um just because they're so limited. Um they only really tell one story and if you don't fit into that that narrative that they're spelling then um you're kind of on your own and that's the same with a lot of minority groups. So making spaces where students connect and find their agency in, you know, multi-dimensional- not multi-dimensional, but in plural spaces that's- that's really important for me.

Imani: I have two things. Um you made some great points. I like to start off with what Emma said first about it does affect me. Maybe we need to start creating a space that promotes vulnerability. Say that it's okay. Whatever you're feeling, whether it be sad or mad because in a lot of times depending on what group we're looking at their emotion is labeled as a stereotype. Passion gets confused as anger. Sad is confused as weakness. It seems- it’s seen as complaining, arguing, and that's where that confusion of why- why are you upset? And that's when it becomes more so political to once again someone needs a factual thing to prove something versus it be one-on-one personable human being- human being connection. Positivity. Uplifting. Speaking on what you're saying about these faces saying: “Well they have their space.” That's it sometimes and kind of going back based back off what um Emma said, sometimes the safe space can feel like isolation. It makes you feel like the label that's in front of center, group, organization is the only thing you can participate in and so to talk about a common- if you're in a common space, you obviously share a common thing which means that whatever's kind of going on it's gonna- you're more than likely gonna agree on what's bothering you. Change isn't gonna happen sitting in with someone who agrees with you. Um change comes from discomfort. Um that's just a known fact. Not being comfortable does not promote success at all. Um I personally have felt like this before my freshman year um BSA BOC SAAS- majority black organizations… I felt like I was doing a disservice to myself. I felt like I was isolated. I both intentionally and some like unintentionally in a sense um I was like: “Well this is what supposed to make me comfortable.” I was missing out on, maybe, what 36,000 other individuals on this campus, um, and I was just like: “Wow, I don't want to agree all the time. I feel like I'm missing out.” Um so for example I'm a mentor in CEED which is the Center of Engineering the Enhancement of Engineering Diversity/ Kind of got involved with some more things and I am uncomfortable sometimes, yes, but I've realized that it's someone may feel the same way as you do. Um it's got to open up someone may feel like: “Well they don't want to talk to me.” They can feel the same way. You open up. You get into those spaces and you don't know by changing that one person's perspective, by stepping out of your own comfort zone, what that one person takes and goes and it passes on. Everything has a reaction. You know, you don't know by just stepping out of your bubble how it can influence one and how what that one person does to continue and promote it- it's just- So kind of just, in summary, creating a space that causes vulnerability and making sure that a safe space isn't an isolation space.

Emma: Yeah um I fully agree that oftentimes the spaces that feel uncomfortable are often the spaces that lead to growth the most. Um and I love what you said about how sometimes these affinity spaces or spaces where we are with people that share our own identity they can be good because then they can validate our own feelings um and our own thoughts but those aren't necessarily the ones that where things are getting done. And so while they're both important they also- we also need to have a good balance between spaces where we can feel vulnerable and we can go to in case we need someone to relate to us and in addition to that a good balance of a space where we feel like we can challenge someone else or that we can be challenged in a way that it's feeling productive.

Anthony: You know in the- in the um spaces particularly those in the Culture Centers, I realized that a lot of students- and they've been called many things in the past… safe spaces, brave spaces… They've been called many things but I think one of the areas that we could capitalize on with these spaces is using them as areas for that- those levels of uncomfortability as you guys were talking about because imagine if we were. We can't- we shouldn't just hold programs within these spaces but invite others who are different from the outside into these spaces so they will have the opportunity to be challenged and to learn. That- that is one great advantage of these spaces and- and it's my hope that um as we move forward that we will use these spaces for that but um understanding too. That uh we'll be asking people who are unfamiliar with these spaces to come in and we have to get them to a place where they're comfortable to come in. So that goes back to us having the ability to talk and to listen to each other and develop the relationships. So as- as all of you are doing the great work that you're doing here on campus, can you tell us about some of the ideas that you have in moving forward in some of your individual areas?

Imani: Well as the analytical person on the team, just studying the demographics and student engagement and

looking at the numbers. What I'm about to say next is going to kind of counter it and this is a personal experience. Sometimes we are looked at as numbers. You met the university's need. We they- they needed it to- to label you as diversity and that's why sometimes when we talk about diversity is like- because I think the negative perception of your number is associated with diversity because they love to put in the articles… it's the- it's the name diversity. We upped it and sometimes it's looked at- it's just like you're a head count. You met the criteria. You met the need for what the university needed to put out their fancy article. Now as someone who is looking at data and the demographics, it's there's a divide somewhere. It's everything. Um it's- it's a difference between who's is a reflection of who's engaged and what the output is. Who's not engaged and what their output is um, you don't know where to start and I think this is a good start but we have to do it in a sense where people don't feel like a number. People don't feel like the spokesperson of their communities. The teacher. Anything like that. I think are probably one thing that we have not brought up is keeping in mind privacy and respect, um, interpretation, social media, context, connotation, diction.

All things you know um I think we all know what VT Twitter is. You all know Facebook myths that circle around. It's easy for something to get misinterpreted. It's easy for one opinion to go viral. Repost it. Quote it on. It's just we have to also think what age of time we're in and we have to- we just have to look at it all. It's- it's a different game. It's like just a different game that we're playing. We have to know what the tools are. Who we're dealing with and go from there.

Emma: You make a great point about kind of how we should look at the data but also like there is like some weakness to that data and that is the fact that like yes sometimes it feels like diversity feels like a head count um and that maybe I'm just one more point or one more percentage or one more whatever um and so part of that makes me feel like yes like that data is always going to exist it needs to exist in order for us to improve our diversity. In one sense but also like if we're taking a step further and saying yes these these students are on campus we have xy x number of students on campus that belong to this community et cetera but even if those students students are present, do they feel comfortable? Do they be- included? Do they feel both- Do they feel a sense of belonging while they're here? Um as far as some of the work that I plan to do within the Undergraduate Student Senate, we have the university chartered student organizations - the UCSOs and that includes the Black Student Alliance. It includes the Jewish Student Unit, includes the Asian American Student Union, many different cultural organizations and within those organizations there's also- they have constituency organizations. Um and so the part of the work that I'd like to do within the USS is we have UCSO representatives and I'd like to speak to them and speak to them about like the issues that they're finding on campus and I'd also like to create spaces that they can speak with each other. Um it's not just about um the individual BSA rep coming to me and then the individual JSU rep coming to me. It's about how can the Jewish students on campus and the Black students on campus collaborate and have these uncomfortable conversations and being able to create those spaces and environments in which they feel that those conversations can both be comfortable but also productive is probably the most important to me. Um and that all goes back to kind of the idea of active listening, which I know we spoke about earlier a little bit um and so through this work that I plan to do with the USS, it's really just about listening to what the students need and creating spaces for them. Um I don't want them to feel like I'm calling the shots and they're just going along with it. I'd like to genuinely listen and serve as a resource to them.

Imani: One thing I would like to double back to what you just said um one thing I do in my role is I observe student wellness reports.

Emma: Yes

Imani: And I think maybe that's the tool we need to utilize. Who's it going out to? Who's responding? Um when we usually look at it, we look at it like always first year, second year, third year, fourth, graduate, professional student… Maybe that's what we need to do to allow- find the common themes and the trends and data within these student wellness reports. Since and that way I'll kind of- it'll see okay, you know, start looking at student performance. What happened in the U.S.? What was going on? Does something negatively impact a student to make them go from an A to a C? You know, start looking at that and I feel like we'll- we can find that in student wellness reports.

So maybe that's something I have to definitely…

Emma: So within- so within Hokie Wellness we do some um reports and uh we can see dips um around final season.

Anthony: Yeah

Emma: We can see how wellness is- we're being affected by wellness, like around when- we're feeling the stress of finals coming in. How that can affect us physically, how that could affect us mentally, how that can affect our ability to socialize and create connections with others. And I wonder- I think you make a great point with this, is that, following any tragedies that are happening nationally or any things that can affect us or any specific group on campus. How are we understanding, maybe through data, maybe through conversation, how our students are being affected and how- what we can do that - what we can do about that, either as peers, as friends, but also as a university. Um as people who have some authority, as people who serve in leadership positions.

Thomas: Okay yeah um I'm thinking about like you know we're talking about student success and um the data that feeds into student success. One of the things that I've kind of learned throughout being here for a while is that it's not always about grades. It's not always about how your GPA comes out at the end of the year and when you think in the long term it's the kind of person you are the kind of person you become. Especially when you graduate and you're moving on to your own life and maybe a new world or just a new place. The kind of person you are has way more impact than the grades that you got when you were in college. And when we're thinking about how are we making people into good citizens and into good people to- to live their lives as inclusive and feel like they belong… I'm thinking about how we can push minoritized students um to feel like they can call themselves Hokies because they belong on campus. And doing work that helps them. I think Emma and Imani are speaking on this very well. I'm thinking about how we push majority students to know that they can be good citizen- citizens and that they can empathize with people that are different from themselves and that's really where I find my work is- pushing those type of students to open their eyes a little bit to what's going on. And it's kind of a broad answer but yeah that's kind of where where I'm going.

Anthony: I really like the idea of looking at those wellness reports but and within the context of our discussion I- I wonder I- I- I sense that a person who is well believes that within this community they belong and they are included because regardless of what a person is going through, if they feel like they belong here and they're included, if they're going through a financial crisis, they won't have a- they won't have trouble contacting someone and explaining- explaining it to them because they feel like they belong here. If they're going through mental crisis, they have no trouble going to counseling because they understand that Cook Counseling is there to support them. So it's important that we continue to stress is- I believe it's important for me to continue to stress to our students that you may not be able to help increase the diversity of the university because you aren't the one to admit students here. You aren't the ones who can necessarily help promote equity because you aren't the ones who write and establish the rules and the practices and procedures of the university. However, you can help affect the consciousness of the person who's standing in front of you. To make them feel like they belong here and they're included here and you can do that in a very simple way- simple way by just asking them or introducing yourself to them but saying: “Hey can we have a cup of coffee?” or “How are you doing in this class?” and strike up those conversations. And what I want to see is us get beyond the point of everyone walking around like this- looking down in their phones as they're walking or everyone having in the earbuds- because I walk around campus every day and I try to just talk to students. Just introduce myself and the majority of them a lot of them have earbuds in and they don't hear me saying Hi, so I don't get a chance to really do it because I don't want to disturb them. But within that um that Inclusion and Belonging piece as we've discussed throughout this whole session is- is key in its capital so I would- I want to ask you this in a closing question: What made you or do you feel included and that you belong at Virginia Tech? If you do, what has made that happen and if you don't what can I do to make you understand that you are? This is a place where you belong and I want to make you feel like you can be included in any area of this university.

Thomas: I'll go- I'll go first um, when I came to Virginia Tech, I had just come out as bisexual and it was a really freeing time because I had been in the closet before and it was really difficult and coming here and being my full person um and gaining confidence from doing that um was really invigorating and then it kind of wore off when I realized that I didn't have anyone who was like me around me. I was living myself but I didn't have a support system to guide me through the stresses that came- come with living your open, positive self. Um and I realized that probably in my second year, that I didn't have a support system- a queer support system that could help me out and I didn't know what to do. I went to the community center and I didn't feel like that was a space where I could make friends with people because I was already on the outside and people already knew people in there and I really like- I really suffered in the fact that I couldn't find queer community for most of my time as an undergraduate when I was here and then kind of when I got to grad school, I realized that I had a new opportunity to make new friends. Especially coming back after the pandemic, I was meeting people for the first time and kind of using my skills and getting to know people to- to make new friends and to find queer community and I've been able to do that. But for my entire undergraduate program, I didn't have that possibility and I'm lucky that I was able to make connections with people that were safe and secure in open and accepting towards me. Um even if they might not have shared the specific experiences that I was going through and that support system was what kind of held me on to when I could finally find people that I really related to and that's kind of what like- there's two parts to what I think university can do. One, it can make people who are different from you be more accepting to you. So that even if they don't relate to you, they can be comforting and they can embrace a sense of power in you. But also, we need to have more effort in people finding people that are like them um both you know in an identity sense but in a personal senses way in the same way so i think like those are two broad categories that you can do and kind of the way you can broach those is by opening up spaces of all kinds where different people can come together and where similar people can come together and make those places places plural and have a multitude of them because one is definitely not enough.

Anthony: Thank you, Thomas.

Imani: Depending on what space I am in, my answer is yes versus no. Um reflecting back on my freshman year living in Ujima, within Peddrew-Yates, second, third, fourth floor. Yeah, I loved it. Um felt comfortable. I love the school. I have life-long friends now you know. I'll start with my yeses first. In a professional setting um I'm proud of what I do. I like- I love actually that I'm seen as an equal in the office. I work also in Housing Residence Life um I'm respected- by I'm judged off of what I can do, what I bring to the table. The output, the reports, the perspectives, ideas that I'm bringing. Um Housing Residence Life, we take calls all day. I've convinced so many parents to let their kids stay. Come- incoming freshmen considering and I love being a Hokie. I love it. I'm like, I love my school and I love promoting it. Um and class is a no. And you made the reference like, everyone has their ear buds and look down and I don't mean to sound dramatic but it's like- I feel like I'm in a- when I walk to class I'm mentally preparing myself to enter like a whole new universe and I've kind of- have referenced this all throughout this podcast… being a STEM major, it's- you're lucky if you see a similar face. You’re look down on. You could say the same idea but just because the color of your skin is different the idea of the next person beside you. And it's a million dollar idea. Um you're seen as less than. Um not only just race but gender as well. Being a woman it's just- it's a fight. I feel like it's a battle. Um anything else I do, you wouldn't know. You couldn't- you couldn't know what I look like through the phone. You'll hear a bubbly voice and someone who's proud to be a Hokie, reading the reports, and reading the resume. Not to be cocky. So it's like great- great work.

In class it is a different story. It's a no. Um sometimes it just feels like- it feels downgrading in a sense. Um I know other people feel like this but it's our reality so we don't complain about it. It's like they knew what I signed up for but I know that Virginia Tech is great. I know that the department I'm in is number three in the nation. So I'mma be a big girl right now and go to class but you know it just sucks sometimes. Um trying to think what else has happened depending on what's going on in the world. Sometimes you just want to be invisible. You don't want to be seen as the spokesperson. You don't want to answer any questions and you also are kind of fearful. You know, like I am a target. It's- it's obvious that and it's evident and I can't hide it. But sometimes you just want to- sometimes you're proud. You go in there with your head up high and sometimes you just want to have a hoodie. You want to kind of look down. It just- it sucks but I don't want it to confuse it with the tone that Virginia Tech is putting out there. This is our nation. I don't want it to what- my story isn't Virginia Tech's responsibility but I think that Virginia Tech can be a place where it- be a start of change. To change the rest of this nation. I know sometimes we get confused with, “oh Virginia Tech is reliable for this.” It's our nation, like think about the pandemic… Virginia Tech did not, you know, was not the front line of the pandemic that happened and sometimes it's just easier to pin the blame on someone based off like association but I love being a Hokie. I love it. I wouldn't- I would do four years. I would do it all over again but in that classroom… could be better. It could be better. It could be better.

Anthony: It's interesting hearing your struggle because um I can hear how much you love Virginia Tech but I can also hear your struggles and the things that you would love to see change but I'm so happy that you will be here throughout this year and next year to really help us focus on the areas that we can change because although Virginia Tech may not necessarily be the blame for everything that you're going through, we can't neglect the fact that we can help be an agent of change. So thank you.

Emma: Yeah um I would love to echo many things that you said. Um so I'm clearly very new here. I've been here for a few months and um I've felt good since I've been here. Um I came out of my junior and senior year in like full isolation um in quarantine and then I came to a campus with over 30,000 people on it and so that was crazy because I was surrounded at the beginning. At the very beginning, the first few weeks, I was here, I was surrounded by the most people I had been around in a really long time and I also felt the loneliest I had felt in a long time. Um and so I guess part of inclusion and belonging work is not eliminating the fact that people will feel lonely and people will feel isolated sometimes but it's setting them up with the resources that when they do um they could bounce back. Um part of my pros- part of the process of like understanding inclusion and belonging is understanding that some of that responsibility does fall on you even if it shouldn't and so for me that meant getting more involved. Um and that meant going to Gobblerfest um signing up for random clubs whether they're cultural organizations or intramural sports um and part of that for me was um doing DEI work and getting involved with um the USS. I really liked what you said about how sometimes um DEI work can feel or inclusion and belonging work can feel daunting. It can feel inaccessible but oftentimes it's just saying “Hi” and and introducing yourself as a person, as a student, as a Hokie, as a resource to other people. Um and so I guess one takeaway from like this conversation is just that anyone can do this work because it can be as simple as just saying “hey, I'm here for you!” Um, I would love to echo what you said about “I- I- I love being here. I love being a Hokie” and part of that is that “I love Virginia Tech so much that I want it to improve” and so I'm willing to point out the areas of improvement that the university has, so that it can it can be better for the next class of Hokies. Um part of loving something means wanting it to improve. It doesn't mean just accepting the way that it is currently. Um and so that's part of my work here today.

Thomas: That was great.

Imani: That was good.

Anthony: This has been enjoyable um and it's also been very eye-opening because I see additional work that Thomas and I can include in our vision that we have for this work and I'm just so happy to know that we have great students like yourselves that are here who can help point out the directions that we need to pay attention to and the way we can help make this place better. I will say this in closing when it comes to inclusion and belonging one area that I do recognize and one pathway that I believe is important is for us to help bring in our, I would say a white male heterosexual christian right-wing leaning students to the table because they have a voice and they have a concern and they have passions just like everyone else and part of all of this work is the fact that we need to be able to disagree with someone in- in a area or certain areas but also be able to recognize the one or many areas in which we do agree and allow the relationship that you have to help sway people because through the relationship is where change will be made. It's not through the debates and the arguing. You're not going to change anyone that way but if we can have relationships with people across difference we can help sway and develop greater sense of understanding. So that would be my last comment and I would allow you all to comment on that and make any last comments that you would have as we close.

Thomas: I'm out of good things to say. It's friday.

Anthony: All right.

Emma: Yeah I mean thank you so much for having us. Um I really enjoyed this conversation. Um I enjoyed it. I'm- I hope to be able to connect with the three of you um in the future and continue to have these conversations. I'm very excited to work with you um and collaborate with the USS um and I think you're right on with making sure that we're including everyone in the conversation and sometimes that means discomfort um and I buy in from everyone.

Imani: Yeah this is great um I just want to throw out a reminder that it's just three of us here and just think about how many more other students there are that feel strongly or if stronger and I'm excited to see what platform that's going to be developed and can't wait for it to kick off and just remember that it's success in being uncomfortable. There's success in being uncomfortable.

Anthony: Well, that said, I'm hoping that Foundations will be coming to the campus soon and that all of our students will take part in it it. Will be a wonderful opportunity for students to help develop their listening skills and create empathy and develop relationships across differences. So with that said, this is Anthony Scott um Chief for Inclusion and Belonging, thanking you for your time and hopefully we will gather again at some other time. Have a great day!